Curse

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 04:29 PM // 16:29

QuixotesGhost,

Thanks for the insightful reply. I agree with most of what you're saying too. I'm all for getting rich and having fun. Last weekend you wouldn't have found me in SF/UW/FoW/UW2 farming. I was out exploring Cantha with henchies/groups or PvP in the new 12v12 format. I was having fun.

In fact my farming has slowed a lot because I've gotten most of what I want and I am tired of the PvE content (even the gear/barrel/book farming part).

It's just puzzling that ArenaNet would devise something like FoW/UW armor and not think it would lead to farming. Honestly, those armors are extremely expensive and hard to obtain. People would be crazy not to try and find ways to speed up their acquisition of the needed materials. Greens are the same. If you got every green for finishing all the quests in SF then that would be different. However, ArenaNet saw fit to make their drops random. So players are forced to repeat the content over and over to get the ones they desire. Once again, it was only a matter of time before dedicated teams started to farm these items.

As an aside, I'm interested to know how many high-minded anti-gear/barrel/book farmers here are using greens that they bought from a farmer. I think the answer would be over 50%. I bet those that did buy from farmers were happy that almost all those greens sell for under 5k. (Sure a few are a lot more, but they are a lot more rare too.)

I also agree that new players are the lifeblood of any game. However, I don't think that changing old content like SF/UW/FoW will actually bring more in. The content is a year old and not likely to change. ArenaNet is going to get new players in with Factions and pull along the older players that are still playing. If something like the Urn holding W/Ri breaks that new content then there's likely to be a fix in the future. I'll take a wait and see attitude here. It may be that mobs will be different at final release or that the "bug" will be gone.

I realize I'm probably wildly unpopular with most people in this thread. I couldn't care less, but if you're ever interested in doing any PvE quest I'll be happy to join you.

Regards,

MelechRic

P.S. I really don't like playing a warrior so you won't ever see me on a W/Ri ash-tank in Factions.

Hollerith · Mar 30, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

The book trick needs to removed because it turns pve into a snoozefest.

Talk about a crutch...

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollerith

The book trick needs to removed because it turns pve into a snoozefest.

Talk about a crutch...

Don't like to snooze? Don't use it. <--- Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

Pandora's box · Mar 30, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Lots of replies have an abusal point of view. Now just consider a rpg point of view:

Do you think its normal someone runs around with someones ashes??? Of course everyone should attack such a creep!

Ghull Ka · Mar 30, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I took my warrior into a PUG in the Fissure of Woe last night. We killed the Priest of Menzies. I chose not to use the book trick, because I don't like it. Instead of walking around for the rest of the game with the book, I turned the book in for the XP reward, as the quest was designed. Half of the group then called me a noob and ragequit the group.

If they do not fix Ritualist urns, the entire PvE experience will have the same problems. W/Rt tanks will be insisted upon by the general PUG population at large, and if you do not conform, you will encounter ragequits, ridicule, and the inability to find a group in the first place. Barring the availability/existance of guildies or friends, you will be forced to either play with a W/Rt tank or with henchies.

Not to mention the poor AL-60 ritualists, even with their super duper +10 AL while holding an object armor, getting shredded every time they conjure an urn for energy management.

This is a real problem that should be fixed prior to the release of GW:F. I just wish that, with all of the outcry about Ritualist urns, ANet would come forward with at least some acknowledgement of our concerns.

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

All you've proved is that you're in the minority in terms of playstyle and approach to PvE (and maybe Guild Wars in general). Your groups fell apart because you weren't up front with them about your intentions. You wasted people's time because they didn't know what they were getting into. That's why they quit. But I guess your phsychology/sociology experiement was a success if you define success as griefing 14 other people.

I do suggest you find like minded individuals and try playing your way. Otherwise it's like you going to a Raiders/Skins game and trying to get the Raiders fans to root for the Redskins. It ain't gonna happen and people will be pissed.

The game exists in it's current form because ANet know it appeals to the largest majority of its playerbase. That means real money for ANet in terms of units sold. If they piss off 2% of the playerbase then they probably don't care.

Quote:

Furthermore, I could spam "LFG that doesn't want to use the book trick" -- if that is your suggestion then you're admitting that there is a problem after all. Why should I have to add that qualifier? Why should the pool of available PUG members be smaller for me because I don't use the book? Is this exploit really that sacred that it is worth all of these negatives? Negatives, by the way, that are caused by me "choosing not to use it" -- which is the only argument that people like MelechRic can seem to offer.

Why not? you are the minority in terms of PvE play. You can accept that, move on and get your group of people that play your way together. Or you can continue to view everything that violates your expectations as a negative and keep aggitating. It's your choice.

Ghull Ka · Mar 30, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Let me get this straight, then:

I say that I'd rather swing my axe than stand around exploiting AI with an aggro-attracting book, some people in my team (that never mentioned the book until the Priest was dead) call me names and leave, and I'm the griefer? I'm the one that is wasting the time of others?

Right. Off to the ignore list with another troll.

Sorafolktale · Mar 30, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by hidden_agenda

Okay, I am going to hijacking the thread for a moment for software engineering discussion...

I believe that you are discounting a few items in your code:
1. target choose is probably a method of the monster object
2. hold_item() is most likely a distributed property on the client (therefore might need to ensure that the environment is in sync prior to this)
3. not sure what language you are using, but if it's c++, you have some syntax issues
4. in terms of design, you have an mixture of direct member access vs. the usage of accessor methods, which is not a good idea

sorry -- bumped into my pet peeve...

well, as i said on the post, it was A SILLY exemple, just to illustrate.
yes, i known calling methods have a proper way to cast them.
yes, this check would be done by the monster when its function to attack would be called.
its more like c++, but the way it is, i would call it a hybrid code, merely to have an idea. its not a complete function, that was compiled and was running. for a complete code it would take hundreds of lines , and to explain that here, its not something i'm up to now.
its a pseudo-code. not a real implementation, ok?
But if u want, u can make one

hehe takes to much time for that. ill pass.

Align · Mar 30, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Melech, answer me this:
Are you 100% against any fixing of the AI so that using ashes in circumstances other than tanking is viable, assuming it'll ruin the book/whatever trick as well?

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghull Ka

Let me get this straight, then:

I say that I'd rather swing my axe than stand around exploiting AI with an aggro-attracting book, some people in my team (that never mentioned the book until the Priest was dead) call me names and leave, and I'm the griefer? I'm the one that is wasting the time of others?

Right. Off to the ignore list with another troll.

Nope, you're a griefer because you went into the zone with full knowledge that you were not going to meet the party's expectations of you. You knew you were going to waste people's time to try and prove a point here on the forums. That makes you a griefer.

I'm a troll because I call you on it, and argue with you.

Go ahead and add me to your in-game/board ignore list if you have the room (which I doubt). If not, don't worry. I won't be bothering you.

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Align

Melech, answer me this:
Are you 100% against any fixing of the AI so that using ashes in circumstances other than tanking is viable, assuming it'll ruin the book/whatever trick as well?

Not at all, because in that case there may be an actual flaw with the way the Ritualist class works. However, I can't say for sure if this is really an issue. We've had what? A little over 48 hours to see how this Urn works in PvE. It's too damn early to tell.

If it breaks the other aggro holding? I won't be pleased, but at least it will be a valid reason instead of the argument that it's "brain dead/too easy/makes people get rich too quickly/not the way I think the game should be played."

Align · Mar 30, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Okay, so "fix at all costs" is fine. Good. Then we can move on. Might I suggest a separate thread for "Book trick or not"?

Theos · Mar 30, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Nope, you're a griefer because you went into the zone with full knowledge that you were not going to meet the party's expectations of you. You knew you were going to waste people's time to try and prove a point here on the forums. That makes you a griefer.

I'm a troll because I call you on it, and argue with you.

Go ahead and add me to your in-game ignore list if you have the room (which I doubt). If not, don't worry. I won't be bothering you.

How wrong and misguided can you be? A griefer is not someone who plays the game like it is supposed to be played, thats called a real RPer. A griefer is someone who; rage quits, kills the team on purpose, etc... Him returning the book does no such thing, I have yet to see my party die when the book is returned.

Though please, if you are oh so wise, do inform me how HE griefed by playing the game without exploiting AI. I want to hear this.

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I already explained what I believe his form of griefing was: he wasted people's time. Did you miss that?

Theos · Mar 30, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

I already explained what I believe his form of griefing was: he wasted people's time. Did you miss that?

Yes he wasted time... really now? I don't remember him saying that the group planned on using the book. So he wasted no ones time in simply completing a quest.

You cannot even justify that what he did was griefing by saying he wasted time, he didn't waste time, the idiots who left wasted time. I am quite sure the group could have gone on its own.

I read this before, I thought you'd be smart enough to realise that "wasting time" is not what HE did, and that if anything wasting time means bull. I waste time by going AFK does that make me a griefer for wasting time?

Ghull Ka · Mar 30, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Theos, man... let it slide. He's picking fights however he can. Stick to the topic and the real important thing here, don't let that nonsense get to you.

And besides, I put him on ignore, but his text still shows if you quote him, *poke*

For those out there that are really concerned about this, keep your eyes out for Gaile to show up ingame next, get her attention, and bring this up. Be relentless (but polite) and make her realize that it is an issue. We have to get their attention if we want this to be changed.

MelechRic · Mar 30, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Yes he wasted time... really now? I don't remember him saying that the group planned on using the book. So he wasted no ones time in simply completing a quest.

You cannot even justify that what he did was griefing by saying he wasted time, he didn't waste time, the idiots who left wasted time. I am quite sure the group could have gone on its own.

I read this before, I thought you'd be smart enough to realise that "wasting time" is not what HE did, and that if anything wasting time means bull. I waste time by going AFK does that make me a griefer for wasting time?

I'm not going to debate the finer points of griefing with you. I just believe that going in with one intention while knowing full well it would piss other people off in the group is a form of griefing.

Any time a single individual goes on a mission/quest with a group for a different reason than what's implied there is potential for grief. Do you consider those people who go on missions to cap without announcing it and then leave to be griefers? I certainly do.

Weezer_Blue · Mar 30, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Hehe... Could easily make a W/Rt with Mighty Was Vorizon and life-saving stances to be an all purpose aggro-drawing tank for PvE.

Metanoia · Mar 31, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Okay, this is getting a little out of hand now.

Assuming the AI flaw(bias name, I know) is universal. I don't think anyone could disagree it probably should be removed if only for the sake of those poor little stretch armstrong wanna-be's.

ps.
Ghull Ka, I'm sorry but I would consider what you did grieving. I don't farm and even I know 5 man SF teams generally intend to use the gear trick. I'm pretty sure you did, too. If you really thought your team wouldn't mind you'd have told them before you set out or told them anyway, just to be sure. But you didn't...

But then, I guess I do have a loose definition of what grieving is. It's not about proper game etiquette, that varies from person to person. If you're intentionally upsetting people then IMO you're grieving.

An example would be someone who disapproved of running getting a run to Droknar's Forge and refusing to pay to "punish" the runner. Too busy being self-righteous to care about the people they're playing with, I guess.

*hangs head in reflected shame*

Katari · Mar 31, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Don't like to snooze? Don't use it. <--- Why is this so hard for people to comprehend?

Eh, there's a bit of a problem with that. If you expect to get a PUG for SF, you need to be ok with holding a book. Sure, you *can* get a full 8-man party sometimes, and there is the occasion when they won't use the book. But do you know how often a party like that comes along?

You can't say AI abuse like this dosn't hurt people if they don't use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Why not? you are the minority in terms of PvE play. You can accept that, move on and get your group of people that play your way together. Or you can continue to view everything that violates your expectations as a negative and keep aggitating. It's your choice.

In Diablo 2, Dupes and hacked items were considered acceptable by the majority of the general public. That didn't make them right.

Oh, for the record, MelechRic, were you for or against the nerfing of Griffion farming, of UW-Soloing, or of the AoE nerf? I feel the AoE nerf in particular parallels the current discussion rather nicely.